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borelt
Joined: May 23, 2008
# Posts: 3
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Posted: 2008-May-23 12:20
Hi,
I have a website promoting my electronic pet containment company. My competitor has a trademark on the most widely used keywords for this industy.
"Invisible" "Invisible Fence" "Invisible Fencing"
Obviously I can't include these words, so I am looking for alternative ways to target this traffic.
If I used a portion of the word, such as "visible" or a word that includes invisible, such as "invisibleness" (yuck) would search engines pick that up?
Any ideas around this problem would be appreciated.
Thanks
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Quadrille
Joined: Nov 15, 2000
# Posts: 1064
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Posted: 2008-May-23 12:43
I think you should check that.
I find it very hard to believe (almost impossible, in fact!) that anyone could lay a claim to the words 'invisible' or 'fence' or 'fencing', though it's just conceivable that they can control a phrase such as 'invisible fencing'.
You may find that you just need some care in how you use those plain old words.
But, unless they actually want his products, I'd have thought that few would use those terms when looking to contain their pets, anyway.
Pet fence, pet control, dog proof fence, electric fence, etc., etc. look much better options to me.
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borelt
Joined: May 23, 2008
# Posts: 3
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Posted: 2008-May-23 12:48
Got a letter from a knoxville attorney yesterday stating that I must cease use of these words because my site is a similiar product.
It does seem impossible, but according to my francise it's true.
I do use pet fence, etc but the biggest search is invisible fence, so I am just feeling out my options.
Thanks for the quick reply
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Quadrille
Joined: Nov 15, 2000
# Posts: 1064
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Posted: 2008-May-23 15:12
Hmmm.
It might be worth the expense of your own attorney; I'm not convinced, and I feel they may be over-egging their case.
But I'm no lawyer, so I'm not suggesting they are making it up!
Good Luck!
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dudibob
Joined: Oct 13, 2005
# Posts: 1462
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Posted: 2008-May-23 15:30
sounds almost as crazy as someone trademarking SEO...
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freeflyer
Joined: Aug 06, 2007
# Posts: 211
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Posted: 2008-May-23 15:51
doesnt sound crazy at all....
The two words generally wouldnt go together. If 'invisible fencing' is a product or brand name that they have created as a name for their products, and you intend to capitalise on this by including it in your own website just because they have made it popular, (ie you are intentionally stealing their traffic) then no you wont be able to use it.
Its like me creating a product called a 'banana screwdriver'. Two completely normal words when used seperately, but put them together, trademark it, and it becomes my own brand name. Then , you go and try to steal my traffic by using it own your own website.. i'm not suprised you got a letter.
You're obviously trying to steal traffic from them for one of their own branded products. Give up. It will land you in trouble. Focus on the generic terms such as the other fencing ones you mentioned.
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Dinkar
Staff
Joined: Aug 12, 2001
# Posts: 4391
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Posted: 2008-May-23 15:52
Got a letter from a knoxville attorney yesterday stating that I must cease use of these words because my site is a similiar product.
If you are NOT in USA:
Throw the letter into your dustbin. Don't reply it, just ignore. Let them go into court if they are willing to. 99.99% they won't go into court and if they go you have better chances to win.
If you are in USA:
Ask your lawyer.
IMO many USA patent laws (and some patents) are stupid ... just plain stupid and their (laws & patents) better place is in dustbin.
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Dinkar
Staff
Joined: Aug 12, 2001
# Posts: 4391
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Posted: 2008-May-23 15:59
Common sense says theres nothing to stop you using 'invisible' and 'fencing' seperately (ie not together and not in context, or in different pages), but of course, that'd be useless to you.
It's NOT useless. He can target the keyword 'invisible fencing' by using it seperately.
So don't say "invisible fencing is a good solution".
Say
- "A good solution is to use a fencing that's invisible"
- "Making your fencing invisible is a good solution".
HTH.
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Quadrille
Joined: Nov 15, 2000
# Posts: 1064
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Posted: 2008-May-23 16:48
According to the OP,
"Invisible" "Invisible Fence" "Invisible Fencing"
were ALL mentioned. The second two I can understand, on the 'banana screwdriver' argument. But if the lawyer has thrown in "Invisible" as well, then it smacks of bad lawyer (webmaster's cousin?), therefore weak case.
Has he REALLY reistered those names, or has he registered one and hopes to bluff his way through?
It's always worth checking, especially if it's an "Invisible" trademark 
I'd also argue that you cannot use trademarks (where they exist), but you can certainly use the English language with a bit of imagination.
And there are circumstances where you CAN use his term, perhaps in comparisons, but that may vary with country, and you would need advice before proceeding.
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borelt
Joined: May 23, 2008
# Posts: 3
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Posted: 2008-May-24 08:29
I appreciate all of the input. I would still like to know if a search engine would recognize my site if I listed a root word, such as "not visible fence".
I noticed that if I search for "unvisible fence" that alot of pet containment sites show up, does that mean if I used "unvisible fence" as a keyword I would be found by people that are searcing for "invisible fence"?
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Quadrille
Joined: Nov 15, 2000
# Posts: 1064
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Posted: 2008-May-24 10:49
You may - but if the search was for visible, then pages that used visible would probably appear before those that only use invisible.
Don't obsess over such details; even real experts cannot control the search engines, and you'll go mad trying.
Your energy would be much better used in considering the range of keywords / phrases that potential customers may use, disregarding ones you cannot use, then making sure you have a page to greet each of the others.
Remember SEs look at pages, not sites, so don't try to cram 30 key words on your index page; use more pages, make each one interesting and unique and focussed on one or two closely related / overlapping topics, and keep growing the site.
Be sure that your site navigation and page design means that wherever people land, (a) they won't be confused, and (b) they can quickly get where they need to be.
That's much more likely to win than getting in a tiz over one phrase you've been told NOT to use.
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Hampstead
Joined: Feb 20, 2001
# Posts: 2015
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Posted: 2008-May-25 10:28
You could get the phrase "invisible Fence" into the page by using a disclaimer.....
This is not the official site for the trademarked product "invisible Fence". If you are looking for that site, please click here.
You can actually work this to your advantage. Use a nofollow on the link.
You can use the targeted phrase in your title tag and Description tag in the same way, just don't put it in the Keyword tag - not that the keyword tag would have had any advantage anyway.
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freeflyer
Joined: Aug 06, 2007
# Posts: 211
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Posted: 2008-May-25 17:40
agreed on above ..
OR
create a landing page based on invisible fence vs your own product. Compare the two in an informative way. That way, its an information page about two different products, and you can use the term 'invisible fence' as many times are you like, even in the titles. A good workaround solution which creates a dedicated page for the terms you want.
However, if it was me, i'd give up trying to use underhanded techniques to pinch someone elses traffic based on their success. User your noddle and work on your own site and products. If this was me selling this invisible fence product i'd be well pi**ed off with you to be honest.
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Quadrille
Joined: Nov 15, 2000
# Posts: 1064
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Posted: 2008-May-25 19:05
I'm with freeflyer; while it's possible to do some 'workarounds', it's potentially confusing for visitors, and guaranteed to set up an enemy for life who will be watching for any slip.
Much better to concentrate mainly on what YOU are selling; positive is always much more likely to convert than negative.
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