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dpconker
Joined: Sep 28, 2004
# Posts: 5
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Posted: 2005-Nov-15 12:25
I run a large website (13,000+ pages) that has seen traffic from search engines steadily decline over the last six months.
I regularly read articles on SEO and I've done my best to optimise our pages but I lack the time and knowledge to really do the job properly. I'm considering hiring an SEO company to help us out, and I'm looking for advice on the type of company that would be suitable in this regard and the price I should expect to pay.
Essentially, I'm looking for a company that can help us optimise our existing pages and offer us specific advice for drawing more search engine traffic.
I would welcome advice on the type of company to look for, the type to avoid and the price range we should expect to pay.
Thanks 
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SportsGuy
Staff
Joined: Aug 30, 2002
# Posts: 3600
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Posted: 2005-Nov-15 15:26
I'll try this again - for some reason, my building just lost freakin power and so went my rather detailed first try at this thread for ya... 
1 - no one can gaurantee, and deliver, a #1 ranking long term. If someone does say they can, be wary.
2 - you do not need ten people handling your account - big companies charge big bucks and smaller companies have lower expenses.
3 - ask how many employees the company actually has - then see # 2
4 - ask how many CURRENT clients they are working with - if they say they have dozens of clients, and it's a shop of only a few people, don't expect much service.
5 - educate yourself - you already have a basic grasp, you say - this will be vital in helping judge proposals - learn to understand as much as possible of how THEY do their job. There's lots to BS about in this industry - try not to be baffled by it.
6 - prices will vary from hundreds per month to tens of thousands per month - try to determine what you NEED done, then have companies look theough your site - their proposals should cover your list, and will likely expand on it - you are paying for that knowledge.
7 - if there is any mention of "software we have to optimize..." - walk away - software DOES NOT optimize a site, humans do and they do it with current, practical knowledge. Lots of newbies feel they are "optimizing" by following the directions on a box of software - software is like a photograph. Snapshot in time only. It knows what it was programmed with when written. Sure it can be updated, but I doubt there are any updates available that take into account the latest (JAGGER) changes with Google - humans are already on top of this - software lags.
8 - keyword research - if this is not the first thing mentioned (or one of the first), there's issues. You cannot get to the goal, if you don't have a map - keyword research will TELL you what users are searching on - ignoring this step is shooting in the dark...in a china shop...with a shotgun...blindfolded...
9 - I don't put alot of stock in SEO websites and how they rank - black-hat tricks can get an SEO site to # 1 - THAT is not what you want them doing for you. I also would prefer the company be working on my own site, rather than trying to get theirs to # 1. I'm guessing most smaller SEOs think the same way - focus on the clients.
10 - get references - call them - have a list of questions ready - speak only to the person who worked directly with the company you are considering
11 - YOU are the expert in your business - THEY are recommending things - you do what makes sense from a user's perspective - if something feels wrong in their recs, ask for more details.
12 - insist on timelines in the contract - SEO efforts sometimes take months to yield results. No biggie, work with them on split payments or something - you are paying for knowledge, they deserve to be paid for that knowledge in a timely fashion. I personally think it's fair, after you've interviewed, researched, etc., to pay half up front and half on completion of the agreed upon work.
If results vary, that's not necessarily the fault of any SEO work - the landscape changes over time, and a professional SEO should not be penalized because, for example, Google now takes a dim view of recip links, and you have thousands. The SEO didn't have anything to do with that, yet they fufilled their end of the agreement. Be realistic with accountability.
13 - research the ever lovin' crap outta them. I use Godaddy.com - I look into their URL, click on the "See more details" link above the results telling me the domain is taken and I check to see the physical address, name on the account, phone number, e-mails, faxes, etc. If it's there, record it. Get them on the phone.
14 - at some point, you will speak with them - insist on it. If they only want to deal exclusively through e-mail, somethings up. If they are legit, they should have no worries about giving you their names, addresses and phone numbers. - one caveat - much of this "good knwledge" may already be employed - if they have a day-job, no biggie, just make sure you work out how many hours a week you can expect to get their attention - figure it as part of the entire process.
15 - e-mails - ah, yeah, you'd prefer e-mails from actual domains, not gmail, yahoo or hotmail accounts. That said, many good, small volume shops might still be using gmail accounts, etc. I refer you back to # 14 - ask for a number and ring them up.
16 - you're in the UK - I'm sure there are local shops there. By that same token, many of us could likely give it a go, too. Don't be put off by a shop in North America or elsewhere - the times will need working out on when you chat, etc., but that's a simple thing - you're after quality knowledge & recommendations - the world IS your oyster.
17 - I HATE nettles...LOL
18 - almost forgot - Page Rank is not everything, inbound links are not the ONLY thing and link exchanging is is only "just OK", not "the biggest thing in SEO" - if these are points being pushed (We can get your main page a PR of 7, etc.) there's an issue, IMO. Link spamming is a BIG problem, is linked, sometimes directly, to claims to increase PR and will only hurt you. PR that you see in the toolbar is a guidleine, which, incidentally, is not based on the most current data at G's end - what we see is NOT what they see.
So, hopefully there's some useful info in here. Actual costs will vary, but you will probably be able to find a decent SEO in your price range - unless you're offering up a weekly visit to Starbucks as payment... 
If you're frustarted or having a hard time, drop me a note with any questions.
SEO knowledge is hard won through experience and takes years to understand properly (I've been at this for almost 5 years and still learn new stuff every month). If the SEO person on your account only has a few months under their belt, be careful they're not using you to learn with...
[ Message was edited by: SportsGuy 11/15/2005 07:43 am ]
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dpconker
Joined: Sep 28, 2004
# Posts: 5
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Posted: 2005-Nov-15 15:59
Thank you, that's very helpful.
I am looking for a company that can offer us a long-term advice and planning. We add tonnes of original content every week so it's mainly a case of making sure that each new page is optimised correctly.
I'll be doing some googling to see what companies are out there. What terms would you recommend to search on in this instance.
BTW - Sorry you hate nettles, but check your PM anyway ;-)
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SportsGuy
Staff
Joined: Aug 30, 2002
# Posts: 3600
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Posted: 2005-Nov-15 17:32
LOL - I don't REALLY hate nettles... "I hate the Dutch"
Seriously, when searching for a company such as this, I'd rely more on word of mouth and personal recommendations than Google results.
I'm sure you can find a perfectly fine SEO firm through Google's results, but in my experience, the folks at the top of that pile charge big bucks.
Spend some time in here refreshing the pages and watch the ads up top - some decent folks advertise here.
For that matter, use the search function, or just scroll through the responses in the SEO 101 section. It should be fairly obvious who the big posters are - read some of their responses. You can PM pretty much anyone - and they usually don't bite.
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yellowwing
Joined: May 21, 2002
# Posts: 2526
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Posted: 2005-Nov-16 17:33
Ask if they have references on large sites. When you talk to the references, ask how the communications and project time lines were handled.
Paying an extra premium for less headaches is well worth the price.
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dcaff03
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 142
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Posted: 2005-Nov-16 22:51
I can offer some help here..
What SportsGuy said:
"Seriously, when searching for a company such as this, I'd rely more on word of mouth and personal recommendations than Google results."
=> This is very true...if you can find some recommendations from an associate or business relationship .. you will probably find a "more service centric oriented" SEO firm this way...that will work more closely with you for the long haul...
"I'm sure you can find a perfectly fine SEO firm through Google's results, but in my experience, the folks at the top of that pile charge big bucks."
=> Certainly, the companies who can spend the resources (labor and money) to get top positioning for "search engine optimization" , "seo" ...etc...will charge big bucks to have you as a client...but...more likely they will have a gaggle (can I use that without google suing me?) .. of very aggressive sales closers who will counter all your objections...the popular model with this...the Owner or top execs are excellent at countering objections and putting out "fires (customer complaints)" .. and you will have a very difficult time getting any type of refund if things don't work out...
A smaller organization will be able to focus better on your specific needs...
If you would like...PM me and I will give you some specific recommendations of US based SEO firms who might serve you well ..
Not all firms will like working in your sector...
Since your sector is "home business" .. this sector has really taken some hits lately because of the search engines own revenue generation initiatives from "their" organic listings and because this type of sector tends to get spammed heavily with ebooks and the like...
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dpconker
Joined: Sep 28, 2004
# Posts: 5
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Posted: 2005-Nov-17 10:12
dcaffo3
Thank you, I'd be happy for you to PM me with some recommendations. The website concerned is not The Nettle, it is paypershop.com. The subject matter is payroll and human resources.
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