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OAC
Moderator
Joined: Jan 25, 2001
# Posts: 6784
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Posted: 04/12/2003 12:21 am
Curt, I am not sure what more I can say - I said the Gator association was morally reprehensible but that wouldn't stop me using Overture's normal PPC (i.e. not Gator), providing it was profitable. OTOH, unless the entire industry turns to scumware advertising, I won't be using such advertising. But PPC, no problem, providing it is profitable.
At least Overture give you what you paid for, unlike a certain well known directory that took your money for a lifetime listing then gave you PPC instead.
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Curt
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 3689
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Posted: 04/12/2003 02:15 am
Yes OAC, I know what you are saying and understand that perspective.
What are you gonna do when you find your PPC listing showing up as Gator popunders?? That's what will happen when the right targeted keywords get hit via Gator on competitor pages. For example, if Gator runs across “Web Hosting” and you run “Web hosting services” and are bidding on the key phrase “Web hosting”, guess what? Your site is getting pulled into the Gator popunder OV listings. Do you want your site associated with Gator?
Other competitors will be contacting those other individuals that show up in those popunder listings and you'll be right in the mix getting angry emailings from your competitors. Don't know if you've thought about it like that, but that's what is gonna happen eventually. People already hate the direct Gator advertisers. They won't like the Gator popunders with OV results anymore than they like those Direct Advertisers.
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FlimFlam,
I hear yah. Right now we don't have many choices in PPC. Google so far hasn't sucumbed to thiefware. I know some people have issues with GG too and if that's the case, I'm afraid I don't have many suggestions of other alternative PPCs worth while.
I thought perhaps Kanoodle might be a choice, but one of the members here said they are using some sort of program to display some of their results (don't remember what the exact thing was there). At any rate the person claimed that the clickthroughs were not targeted and converted very poorly. I cannot confirm that. Perhaps that other person can comment on what he was talking about or point us to that thread about kanoodle and PPCs.
FindWhat is still courting thiefware for their PPC listings so that's not really an option.
Guess Google is all there is in the PPC market. I've not dealt with Google yet. Anyone know what their minimum bid amount per click is?
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OAC
Moderator
Joined: Jan 25, 2001
# Posts: 6784
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Posted: 04/12/2003 03:59 am
"Do you want your site associated with Gator?"
No way.
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FlimFlam
Joined: Sep 04, 2002
# Posts: 138
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Posted: 04/12/2003 04:15 pm
"Anyone know what their minimum bid amount per click is?"
It varies. Why don't you check the AdWords Forum, you're sure to get pointed in the right direction.
BTW -- does anybody feel like Overture is making their last few grabs while they can? Like the Spice Girls, but their movie came out just a month too late, right after all their legions of Wannabes switched to the Backstreet Boys? MSN, Yahoo come up with their own Next Best Things, and pretty soon Overture has nothing left but the scumbags, like ex-Spices taking any late-night talk-show gig they can get.
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Curt
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 3689
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Posted: 04/14/2003 01:12 am
OAC said:
...No way.
hahaha, I didn't think so 
Yah know it's kinda weird, but you'd think OV would do what they could to hold onto their advertisers. It looks like they are only thinking short-term, perhaps 3-6 months. Once the advertisers wise up and realize that they are getting Gator'd, many will drop OV. OV would do much better developing their engines rather than working with Gator.
They have the start of a great little engine called FAST, but instead decide to kill off a sizeable client list instead. If they were smart, they'd build brand awareness of FAST and make it popular. Then they'd have an engine with traffic to use the top 3—5 spots for OV ads and no need to resort to short term thiefware contracts.
Instead they use thiefware and not only gonna kill off (or cripple) OV, but also kill/cripple FAST and AV too when word gets out that they also own them too. OH well... guess they don't mind tainting all 3 of their engines with thiefware.
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ttripp
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 74
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Posted: 04/14/2003 12:47 pm
Back to Gator--since we're voting--I guess reading these threads one thing I do not understand is how one can say what they are doing is perfectly legal (there doesn't seem to be disagreement there) when Gator is being installed prior to any acknowledgement and acceptance. That is not legal, that is a virus. One can argue that it is not a virus because the intent is not to cause damage, but if I were to write and distribute a virus that played Jingle Bells on your PC speaker everytime you pressed the esc key, is my sharing of joy considered a virus? You bet! So tell this ignorant guy, why is Gator not a virus?
Note: I have not had experience with Gator, but with similar, less popular and reprehensible software that sound equally as difficult to remove. Regarding Overture, Google and anyone else's greed; they will die soon. It is like buying an Encyclopedia where you can have your name listed for a price. Neat, but the book loses functionality. I'm confident the market will thin the herd, unless, of course, IE is built so that is can only use MSN... Finally, I really have a distaste for ppl saying there's nothing you can do about it, I heard that implied once or twice in this thread. I do not pay Yahoo and their ridiculous terms and that is several hundreds or thousands of dollars they will not see because of their own stupidity. Yes, it's skin off my nose, but not enough. I'm guessing there are a few more of you that thumbed your nose at them inspite of the ROI.
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Curious_Mark
Moderator
Joined: Dec 02, 2001
# Posts: 2142
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Posted: 04/17/2003 06:06 am
There are many people fighting this type of monstrosity. The problem is there are no laws that govern this type of application head-on. The various governments are loath to take this stuff on because it has the potential to overload judicial systems and be very expensive to litigate.
In some ways this is good because the powers that would like to control the Internet solely for big business can't do so because the lawmakers are afraid to wade into a potential legal Stalingrad which certain areas of the Internet are. Just my thoughts.
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Curt
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 3689
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Posted: 04/18/2003 02:10 pm
In some ways this is good because the powers that would like to control the Internet solely for big business can't do so because the lawmakers are afraid to wade into a potential legal Stalingrad which certain areas of the Internet are. Just my thoughts.
Yep, a double edged sword, the legal system is. Trouble is, it also protects the bad guys from swift justice.
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Curious_Mark
Moderator
Joined: Dec 02, 2001
# Posts: 2142
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Posted: 04/19/2003 11:02 am
Totally true, but really only the wealthy can afford swift justice.
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Hux
Joined: Dec 02, 2002
# Posts: 1207
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Posted: 04/20/2003 05:59 pm
Ah the joys of avoiding PPC in the first place! No scum-ware, no budgets, no adding up bid pricing, no grief!
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Curious_Mark
Moderator
Joined: Dec 02, 2001
# Posts: 2142
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Posted: 04/21/2003 08:28 am
Avoiding PPC is like avoiding income as far as I can see. Stick with PPC programs that do not piggy-back with scumware. For my dollar I will avoid using Overture like the plague until they lose Gator.
There have been many searches where I used the paid results first as the vast majority of them are relevant and screened helping searchers in my opinion.
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