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neurodude
Joined: Mar 09, 2005
# Posts: 38
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Posted: 2005-Mar-12 19:31
I am building my first affiliate website and I seem to be having a problem with NetObjects. Maybe I am just doing it the wrong way so maybe someone can help out a newbie.
In NOF 8.0, to add affiliate HTML I just create a basic text box, hit the HTML button on the Text Properties dialog box and enter it that way. It seems to work when viewing the website online. The problem is in the NOF "Page Design" view, it will not let me resize the text box to the size that the add is going to be when viewed on the web - or in "Page View".
This results in my "Page Design" view not being true to the design when viewed on the internet.
Does anyone else have this problem? Is there a different way to post the HTML snippets where I can make the "Page Design" view show things in the size they will be seen on the internet?
Thanks for your time.
AL
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lizardz
Joined: Nov 12, 2004
# Posts: 1394
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Posted: 2005-Mar-12 20:47
NetObjects? Is that still around? I thought that company went bankrupt, did somebody buy the name and put out a new product? Who recommended that to you? Do yourself a favor, get something like dreamweaver mx, if you don't want to learn HTML you should use a decent piece of HTML generating software. Avoid Frontpage too by the way. Some people also like Adobe Golive, but dreamweaver is probably the best one to use.
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unreviewed
Joined: Dec 07, 2000
# Posts: 6776
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Posted: 2005-Mar-12 22:07
Netobjects version 8 was just released, and since version 6 it now uses CSS instead of nested tables, which means small clean code.
You can add the code two ways, and the method is the same regardless if you are using Dreamweaver, Netobjects or FrontPage. FrontPage 2003 is now a very professional class editor, BTW lizardz, honestly I think you went into a comma in 1999 and just recently awoke. 
To insert the code in Netobjects click on your code button and insert the code. However, what I do is create a 1 cell table and set it to be invisible, I then highlight the table and click on its HTML property tag, and insert the code there. That way I have a nice little object that I can freely move around the page. Also, if you put it on a master border it will appear on all pages. You can basically use this same method in most editors.
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unreviewed
Joined: Dec 07, 2000
# Posts: 6776
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Posted: 2005-Mar-12 23:05
Neurodude, just took a look at your site and I’d like to suggest the following,
Open "Current Site Options" and on the "General Tab" for the text formatting option, choose "Cascading Style Sheets", then click the "HTML Options" button and uncheck "Use transparent GIF as spacer".
Do those two things and your page size will be much smaller, the code cleaner, and your pages will actually be WYSIWYG. You will find that no matter which editor you use, you will need to set them up to get best results.
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lizardz
Joined: Nov 12, 2004
# Posts: 1394
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Posted: 2005-Mar-12 23:06
"FrontPage 2003 is now a very professional class editor... I think you went into a comma in 1999 and just recently awoke."
Yeah, there's some truth to that, I have this weird idea that if a company makes a really bad product I stop using that company's products, since what else do you have to judge a company's software by but their past history? Strange idea I know, but that's how I see it, I like to reward companies that have always done good work. Since in 99-2000 dreamweaver was a fairly decent product, I tend to give them some credit.
And here's the other strange thing, I haven't needed to update the quality tools I got in 99-2000 at all, I use the same text editor, same dreamweaver, same office suite. They were done well, that's the mark of good software. Weird idea, no? I have MX, but just can't find a reason to install it, same with frontpage 2003, office XP etc, just can't see any reason, the old stuff works fine.
But having recently worked with a guy who used that very new Frontpage you're suggesting is now working fine, and having it destroy a complex css layout the first time he opened it in frontpage, as I told him it would, I'd have to once again very respectfully disagree with your statement. I had heard frontpage had improved, of course I didn't believe it, and my client's destruction of the page demonstrated that frontpage is still carrying the same issues it always has. Am I interested in checking this out for myself by playing around with the latest releases? No, since what I thought would happen did happen I didn't see much need to then see if I could make it workable by making the settings put out decent code, it's easier to type it in anyway with a real code editor.
I'm aware that Frontpage can be made to work decently, it could be made to work decently in the past too by the way, took registry tweaks etc, but out of the box it's just the same as it always has been as far as I can tell judging by the code I've seen from it, that's a new frontpage, not an old one. MS may one day understand the web, but that day is far away, Bill will probably be retired by then.
Anyway, seems like we're destined to disagree about certain things, oh well.
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unreviewed
Joined: Dec 07, 2000
# Posts: 6776
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Posted: 2005-Mar-12 23:32
We simply both have an opinion lizardz, and sometimes, if the subject is dear, we might make the effort to argue and have fun with it. I don’t think this subject is one of those.
But make no mistake about one thing, I enjoy your posts. When you get to know me better, you’ll know I would never say that if it wasn’t true. I think you are a well above average webmaster, and one that is nice enough to spend time here helping out.
I will say this about Netobjects. It can only be used to create a new web site, therefore it is of little value to a SEO that needs to work on exsisting sites. As for FrontPage, you must turn the automated CSS feature off, reason is, Microsofts CSS will only work in IE. Had your friend done that before the import it would have been ok, also keep in mind, an import is just a copy, no harm done.
Sure there are “gotchas” in most software, plenty in Dreamweaver as well.
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lizardz
Joined: Nov 12, 2004
# Posts: 1394
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Posted: 2005-Mar-13 00:42
Thanks for the kind words unreviewed, nice to know, these kinds of anonymous web communications always leave certain things as hard to get a hold of so it's nice to hear stuff said directly, I'll keep that in mind. I like these forums, for a bunch of reasons, which obviously reflects on the mods and admins, and the decisions taken [no sigs, no avatars, site reviews when useful... thank you thank you thank you...].
Time spent here has been very useful, over the last months examining a sequence of newbie seo errors enabled me to fairly accurately predict what google might do in alegra and take steps to ensure the sites under my control didn't suffer in the coming update, which came as alegra, they didn't... obviously what google is going to focus on is what average seos do, what seo enewsletters tell their subscribers to do [had a client that followed those, worked great until florida, then bye bye sites, never recovered most of them]
It's funny, seems like netobjects hasn't changed at all, one of my first jobs was to work with a netobjects site, took one look at the code, told client, no way, that's going, we're switching to clean code, netobjects went out of business a bit after.
Problem with most wysiwyg editors is those presets, most people who are liable to mess up are also not likely to change presets, it's a catch 22 situation, tweak dreamweaver, add an extension, and you get perfect html/css apparently, same for frontpage probably, which means that people good enough to know why they should do that will do it, but those people are probably the same people who could easily write the code by hand in the first place.
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unreviewed
Joined: Dec 07, 2000
# Posts: 6776
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Posted: 2005-Mar-13 01:56
Pretty well everyone just starting out now are bypassing editors altogether and using content management systems. CMS is what we use to call "shopping carts" before blogs came along. 
Now the CMS offerings are getting pretty hard to resist, very search engine friendly, plug in modules are everywhere, skins, XML and data feeds built in, and you can work on your site from any computer with an Internet connection.
Plenty of good free php code for the downloading, and some of the new .net stuff is truly ground breaking, exspecally ver 2.0 still in beta. If this keeps up, the only editor question left, will be “why use one at all …”
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lizardz
Joined: Nov 12, 2004
# Posts: 1394
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Posted: 2005-Mar-13 02:20
Haven't seen a cms, forum, or blog that didn't require massive code modifications, via text editor, to work the way I wanted them to work, and even then they just barely do what I want them to do, but overall I have to agree with the general point, this automated stuff works ok for getting stuff up.
Huge drawback though is maintaining and upgrading the software, patches, mods, etc, but it's a different kind of work than coding out pages. Still a place for higher end page coding though I think, some things just aren't really worth using a cms for. But that's becoming more and more of a niche type work, craft stuff.
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neurodude
Joined: Mar 09, 2005
# Posts: 38
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Posted: 2005-Mar-13 13:23
Thanks, I will do this and try your invisible table suggestion. I use NOF because I got it for free, quite honestly.
Any suggestions for a good CMS?
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unreviewed
Joined: Dec 07, 2000
# Posts: 6776
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Posted: 2005-Mar-13 17:35
>>Any suggestions for a good CMS?
Looking at the web site in your profile, you should stick with Netobjects.
However, if you do plan on adding a few hundred pages of content over time, and will have several employees adding the content, then perhaps you should consider it. For a Linux system and free, take a look at,
http://sapid.sourceforge.net/
On a windows server, and again from looking at your web site you may find this of use,
http://www.dynamic.ie/aspproducts/property.asp
Property Site Manager - content management system for property companies and real estate agents.
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