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friendlyfrank
Joined: Sep 02, 2006
# Posts: 308
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Posted: 2008-Feb-14 02:40
I hear and see a lot of posts about the ongoing corruption in ODP and some of the editors abusing the system.
Why don't google just introduce a paid directory like yahoo
ditch ODP > make money for itself as well and give that benefit that they give to ODP inclusions now ?
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animated3d
Joined: Dec 22, 2005
# Posts: 407
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Posted: 2008-Feb-14 05:20
ODP has been to overrated none of my sites are listed and i dont care either people can rank well without it and yes it would be obvious of editors abusing it.
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friendlyfrank
Joined: Sep 02, 2006
# Posts: 308
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Posted: 2008-Feb-14 05:59
So it's best for Google to open a paid directory .
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Quadrille
Joined: Nov 15, 2000
# Posts: 1064
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Posted: 2008-Feb-14 10:18
Certainly best for Google - they need the money 
But while the influence of ODP has been exaggerated, so has the corruption.
Most of the people whining are those that have failed to get in. Would you dismiss a Quality Nightclub on the word of the riff raff the bouncers (wisely) kept out.
Or would you prefer a club that admits every scumbag in sight?
I know my preference
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g1smd
Staff
Joined: Jul 28, 2002
# Posts: 10418
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Posted: 2008-Feb-14 19:56
Several particular widely-reported cases of corruption were actually the figment of the imagination of people so desparate for attention, and so desparate for visitors and clicks, they would invent anything to get themselves noticed.
Thing is, every edit action is logged, and the stuff in alleged incidences can be proven to have never happened.
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friendlyfrank
Joined: Sep 02, 2006
# Posts: 308
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Posted: 2008-Feb-14 20:24
Folks I submitted my site a looooong time ago. It is one of the best sites you would see for the industry I am in.
I hired top notch designer and unique content written by professionals.
I can send you a link in PM to see what I mean. The graphic look and feel is out of the ordinary. I have articles, white papers, explanations, authenticity - you name it.
I have been told by many customers that it looks like a fortune 100 site and full of useful information. I also followed the submissions guidelines to the pixel.
Yet my site was not included in ODP for no obvious reason. And this is where I am confused!?!?!
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Quadrille
Joined: Nov 15, 2000
# Posts: 1064
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Posted: 2008-Feb-14 23:23
I'm not an ODP editor, so I cannot help; though I would advise that you reread the guidelines - and the category guidelines where you submitted, they may offer a clue.
Even if they don't, your lack of inclusion could be for all sorts of reasons, corruption being way down the list of likely scenarios.
There are ways to follow this up, hopefully, someone will suggest.
However, the best advice on ODP - as with every directory - is simple.
Submit once, to the most appropriate category, following guidelines to the letter. Then move on. It's their directory, and their choice whether to accept or not. There is absolutely nothing to be gained by obsessing about it.
Submit and move on.
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friendlyfrank
Joined: Sep 02, 2006
# Posts: 308
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Posted: 2008-Feb-14 23:45
Thanks Quadrille. I have been on the SEO forums for the last 8 years and of course I am quite well aware of appropriate category, wording and all. I also don't think it's a corruption issue in my case. That was just something I read on the net. My case may be like thousand of many other people who just dont know why they cant ever get into ODP - no matter how good their site is.
Yes, I submitted only once and moved on 
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cbp
Joined: Dec 25, 2003
# Posts: 181
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Posted: 2008-Mar-09 01:46
The corruption at DMOZ/ODP is just a urban myth that is perpetuated around the SEO forums.
The most common reason that a site that meets the guidelines is not listed is simply a volunteer editor has not got to it yet to review it.
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friendlyfrank
Joined: Sep 02, 2006
# Posts: 308
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Posted: 2008-Mar-09 03:43
I take that with a grain of salt. I think DMOZ can easily apply some standards but for some reason no one really cares. Isn't there a time frame they can allot for an editor to update the listing. Also there is no accountibility for the editors.
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g1smd
Staff
Joined: Jul 28, 2002
# Posts: 10418
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Posted: 2008-Mar-09 09:26
Anyone can use the Update Listings link at any time to flag a problem with any current entry. There are several editors that spend a lot of time on quality control, and so updates often get attention before new listings.
Every edit action is logged, and every editor can inspect the edit actions of any other editor at any time - so abuse does not go unnoticed for very long.
As for you not believing that the most common reason that a site hasn't been included is that no-one has reviewed it yet, you do the math. There are 6 000 active editors and 700 000 categories. If an editor looks at two categories a day, every day, then each category is looked at once per 18 months.
However, it doesn't work like that. Some categories get a lot of attention, and others get very little. One day, a new editor comes along who is keen on subject X and now that category gets attention once or twice per week. However editor Y has got a new job and category A, B, and C, are not going to be looked at by that editor for a couple of months... but any other editor could apply for those categories at any time, and any other editors higher up the branch already have access, and there are more than a hundred editors that can edit anywhere at any time. However, just because they can, doesn't mean they should.
Finally, as for allocating an editor to do something, you're a regular poster here, a memeber in just the same way that an editor is a member of ODP, so I am allocating that you review three sites every day in the "Site Review" Section of this forum.
Hang on, you say, I didn't join to be told how much time to devote to this forum. Nowhere did it tell me that I had to do a certain amount of work. That's true here, and that's true at the ODP as well.
Editors are volunteers, not employees. They are required to make one edit every four months, otherwise their log-in times out to inactive. However, ex-editors can re-apply at any time. Some editors that were doing 500 edits per week last year, have timed out this year, as other priorities have taken over. Some editors who left a year or two ago, because of other commitments, are now recently re-joined, and so it goes on.
To get the ODP where it is today, I think I heard a figure of 40 million edits having been performed. There isn't just the simple adding of sites, but editing of errors, updates of listings when they move domain, or change scope, as well as removal when the site has gone, or has changed purpose, as well as removal for various deceptions, and unlistibility, and updates because of typos in titles and descriptions.
All this has been explained, multiple times, in multiple forums, for a multiple number of years.
What else do you want to know?
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friendlyfrank
Joined: Sep 02, 2006
# Posts: 308
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Posted: 2008-Mar-09 18:03
I see your point and by the looks of your post you must be an ODP editor too. Correct ? Yes I agree with you on almost all of your points but then a limitation of one site in four mont is just too less. It is a topic which we both have our point of views but by reading your reply I get an understanding of ODP work as well. I hope this will be helpful for others too. Thanks
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Quadrille
Joined: Nov 15, 2000
# Posts: 1064
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Posted: 2008-Mar-09 19:58
Frank, there's never any need to worry about ODP (or any other directory).
Submit your site and move on. Whether they list your site or not (and it's entirely their choice, as is the timing), there's nothing you can do about it, except build a better directory yourself.
And I mean better
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friendlyfrank
Joined: Sep 02, 2006
# Posts: 308
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Posted: 2008-Mar-09 21:17
or wait for Google to one day start their own PAID directory and kick ODP out of their league.
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Quadrille
Joined: Nov 15, 2000
# Posts: 1064
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Posted: 2008-Mar-09 22:12
That is pretty unlikely to happen; Yahoo!'s paid directory has lost much of it's value (and profitability, I dare say) in recent years, and directories in general have been 'demoted' over the last couple of years.
plus, of course, the ODP, while not perfect, does everything Google needs, so why would they bother?
And don't run away with the idea that the ODP is unique in having imperfections - it just gets more fuss made than problems with paid directories.
Lets face it, if ODP charged for entries, most of the whinging spammers would not risk their cr*p sites - the ones they make such a big deal out of now.
And ODP made two mistakes:
1. Responding to criticism - only encourages them
2. Not executing departing editors - there's nowt so vicious as a volunteer caught with his hand in the till.
Move on; it's an old debate, and nothing will change. Google's happy, as are 99% of the editors and 98% of those with sites listed*. And envy is a sad attribute
*Figures are fictional.
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g1smd
Staff
Joined: Jul 28, 2002
# Posts: 10418
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Posted: 2008-Mar-10 02:00
*** a limitation of one site in four mont is just too less ***
What if here at SEF, we made you post at least one thing every week, or we remove your user name?
There wouldn't be many people left after, say, three months.
So, at this site we welcome every post, whether the person is here every day, or whether they post once per year.
Why should the ODP be any different?
Let's say there are 500 editors that only make 6 edits per year. Should we delete all those editor accounts?
No-one else would make those 3000 edits, so the directory would be worse off by 3000 edits per year. That's not an improvement. Editors that cannot edit very often are not blocking anyone else from doing anything else.
It's NOT like a situation where there are only 20 buckets to get water from the pond to put out a fire, so if ten people stand idle with a bucket in their hand the house burns down. No. Every editor works independently from everyone else, but will have a limit of categories where they can edit. Once trust is gained, the editor can apply for wider permissions. Some editors can edit anywhere, so potentially each category has hundreds of editors.
A once-highly active member of this forum has returned here after a break of more than two years. Should we have removed all reference to that person during that time? No, of course not. Again, why should the ODP be any different?
These are mostly rhetorical questions, attempting to explain that it doesn't work anything like you might assume that it does. The ODP is a community, cataloguing the best bits of the web, using volunteers, who each volunteer which bits they fancy having a go at. It gets done, but not at any predictable rate for any particular topic.
Remember, it has taken some 40 million edits to get where it is now. No-one else could even begin to compete, right from scratch, with that.
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beth_lk
Staff
Joined: Jun 23, 2004
# Posts: 1211
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Posted: 2008-Mar-10 02:50
The thread has brought a lot of valuable information about
ODP up - I agree to match ODP - nay, but to get the same recognition as ODP - possible, with a lot of hard work.
Question - someone such as frank, should he resubmit his site? I know ODP says "no" but after waiting all this time, it is possible that is was over looked - correct?
I have viewed his site and all his statements about it are correct.
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friendlyfrank
Joined: Sep 02, 2006
# Posts: 308
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Posted: 2008-Mar-10 03:10
Thanks Beth. As Quadrille said, nothing will change and it's an old debate. Best is to submit once and move on and look for other sites where we can get good links.
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